System freezes when idle

[macjim]

Funnily enough I was just thinking of sending out a question about my system to the forum, I was considering a WIN10 re-install

I don't get BSOD, but I get random freezing. It can go days without any issues then 2 or 3 in a day.

When I'm browsing or even sitting idle, the system just freezes, never when gaming.

When it freezes, I'm generally browsing or watching a video when the system hangs - I can't use the task bar, start menu, any apps or anything on the desktop. I have a clock Gadget app with a second hand and it stops - that's when I know the system is staring to freeze. I can generally still browse for a few minutes before even the browser freezes. Only solution is a hard power reset. Nothing ever reported in Event viewer or Reliability tools. I was leaning towards a graphics card issue, as I upgraded Nvidia drivers and it appears more stable.

I've upgraded my RAM from 2x8GB, to 4x8GB - Same CAS, speed and voltage but different product ID.

But maybe I should takes two sticks out to see if it's more stable this way.

Processor (CPU)
AMD Ryzen 7 3800X Eight Core CPU (3.9GHz-4.5GHz/36MB CACHE/AM4)
Motherboard
ASUS® TUF X570-PLUS GAMING (USB 3.2 Gen 2, PCIe 4.0, CrossFireX) - ARGB Ready!
Memory (RAM)
16GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR4 3600MHz (2 x 8GB)
1st M.2 SSD Drive
500GB SEAGATE FIRECUDA 520 GEN 4 PCIe NVMe (up to 5000MB/R, 2500MB/W)

I added another 16GB of 2x8GB, DDR4, 3600 MHz, 1.35V, same CAS Latency 18-22-22-42

Slot 1 - CMK16GX4M2Z3600C18
Slot 2 - CMK16GX4M2Z3600C18
Slot 3 - CM4X8GD3600C18K2D
Slot 4 - CM4X8GD3600C18K2D

Slot 3,4 are the PCS supplied RAM

PCS Original

New(Amazon)

 

[ubuysa]

Hi,
I've moved this post out of the Survey for 4 RAM sticks in a Ryzen build thread because I want to keep that thread solely as a survey, not as a call for help.

Would you mind please posting back in the survey thread with just the information requested for that thread - CPU model, your motherboard model, your RAM type and model and whether you are (or have been) experiencing any issues (freezes, crashes, BSODs)?

Very many thanks.

 

[macjim]

I would definitely remove the 2 additional sticks of RAM and try it with just the original RAM for a couple of weeks....may be unrelated,may be the 4 sticks at 3600MHz issue. If you really need the extra RAM, then an alternative solution may be to lower the RAM frequency to, say, 3200MHz in the BIOS XMP

Thanks I'll give it a go, might run memtest to see if the sticks are intrinsically good before I remove them.

 

[ubuysa]

Thanks I'll give it a go, might run memtest to see if the sticks are intrinsically good before I remove them.

Test them only two at a time. The potential issue with 4 sticks may cause Memtest to fail even though the sticks themselves are good.

 

[macjim]

Finally found time time to remove the RAM, and run Memtest86 on the separate 2x8GB RAM sticks.

No failures in either old or new RAM, it passed through all 4 loops @ 100%

The RAM does report back on Memtest86 as different CMK16GX4M2Z3600C18 (Amazon) & CM4X8GD3600C18K2D ( PCS original)

When you go to Corsair's web page, it finds CMK16GX4M2Z3600C18, but not CM4X8GD3600C18K2D.

The memory does appear identical in appearance and specs for access & Voltage, Speed, etc.

Spookily enough when I pasted CM4X8GD3600C18K2D into google, this popped up https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/forums/threads/faulty-ram.75252/ - It appears this is not an uncommon e.g. the names do not to match

After all Passmark website finds CM4X8GD3600C18K2D(PCS) as Corsair memory, but not CMK16GX4M2Z3600C18(Amazon)

This is an extract from the Event logger, Event 41 is when I have to power reset after a freeze. I thought the Graphics driver update on the 2 Feb had cured it, but clearly not.

Level	Date and Time	Source	Event ID
Critical	11/02/2021 12:04	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
Critical	10/02/2021 21:43	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
Critical	10/02/2021 16:13	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
Critical	10/02/2021 12:52	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
Critical	10/02/2021 10:34	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
	02/02/2021 09:39	Nvidia Driver Updated - 27.21.14.6140
Critical	02/02/2021 09:21	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
Critical	02/02/2021 07:52	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
Critical	01/02/2021 17:19	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
Critical	31/01/2021 15:39	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
Critical	31/01/2021 11:39	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
Critical	31/01/2021 08:38	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
Critical	30/01/2021 18:31	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
Critical	30/01/2021 10:57	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
Critical	30/01/2021 09:04	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
Critical	28/01/2021 16:20	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
Critical	28/01/2021 10:22	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
Critical	27/01/2021 12:51	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
Critical	24/01/2021 20:07	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
Critical	19/01/2021 12:00	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
Critical	18/01/2021 09:25	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
Critical	18/01/2021 02:37	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
Critical	17/01/2021 11:42	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
Critical	17/01/2021 08:58	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
Critical	16/01/2021 16:06	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
Critical	16/01/2021 09:47	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
Critical	15/01/2021 20:28	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
Critical	15/01/2021 19:46	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
Critical	13/01/2021 17:31	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
Critical	06/01/2021 09:22	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
Critical	03/01/2021 21:04	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
Critical	03/01/2021 14:16	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
Critical	26/12/2020 12:21	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
Critical	16/12/2020 19:26	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
Critical	06/12/2020 10:58	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
Critical	05/12/2020 18:18	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41
Critical	03/12/2020 19:25	Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power	41

 

[ubuysa]

I'm not surprised the RAM sticks are fine, I do think this is another instance of the 4 RAM sticks on AMD issue. I would suggest that you contact PCS, they are aware of this issue.

Those kernel power error 41 messages only indicate that Windows was not shutdown properly, nothing more.

 

[macjim]

I'm not surprised the RAM sticks are fine, I do think this is another instance of the 4 RAM sticks on AMD issue. I would suggest that you contact PCS, they are aware of this issue.

Those kernel power error 41 messages only indicate that Windows was not shutdown properly, nothing more.

Thanks - I'll start the ball rolling with PCS - I assume it's a BIOS flash?

 

[ubuysa]

Thanks - I'll start the ball rolling with PCS - I assume it's a BIOS flash?

I don't think they know what the cause is yet. I've not heard of a permanent solution. Others have had some success downclocking to 3200MHz. I would discuss it with PCS.

 

[macjim]

I don't think they know what the cause is yet. I've not heard of a permanent solution. Others have had some success downclocking to 3200MHz. I would discuss it with PCS.

Thanks - I'll run for a while with 2 sticks to see how stable it is and discuss with PCS in parallel - make sure it's not another issue

 

[macjim]

Ah well, it was not to be

I've been running since Friday morning, approx 10 hrs a day with no issue, but I've hsa two freezes today, had to power reset - no Mini dumps.

I'm only using the original PCS 2x8 GB RAm, still running @3600 MHz.

I did create the Application & System logs from the Event Viewer using this https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/forums/threads/when-youre-seeking-help-with-a-bsod.71885/

I've saved them to my One Drive account here: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AoUU74i2sEO7rkVJvi-TFXBTwD76?e=l4c3Rn

Resets were at, 19:40:49 & 13:00:47

Critical 16/02/2021 19:40:49 Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power 41 (63)
Critical 16/02/2021 13:00:47 Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power 41 (63)

Not sure where to go from here.

Thanks
Jim

 

[NoddyPirate]

I know this is probably a silly question - so really just for my own sake - I assume you have the two remaining sticks in the correct slots for a two stick config?

 

[macjim]

Yes, in slot 2/4:

wmic memorychip get devicelocator, capacity, speed

Capacity DeviceLocator Speed
8589934592 DIMM_A2 3600
8589934592 DIMM_B2 3600

 

[ubuysa]

Your System log contains repeated failure messages for some networking components:

WinHttpAutoProxySvc - this service provides support for HTTP proxy configuration. It should be set to 'manual' startup and never disabled.
iphlpsvc - this service provides IPv6 tunnel connectivity for some IPv6 connectivity services. It should be set to 'automatic' startup and never disabled. It depends on the WinHttpAutoProxySvc service.
NcaSvc - this service records networks to which the user has connected and stores properties for these networks. It should be set to 'manual' strtup and never disabled. It depends on the NcaSvc service.

Of these three the only one of concern is the IP Helper Service iphlpsvc because that aids with the implementation of IPv6 tunnelling over an IPv4 network. Note that IPv6 should not be disabled on a Windows 10 system. Check the startup settings for these services via services.msc.

There are also a huge number of DCOM entries reporting a failed start of a server with a GUID of {AB8902B4-09CA-4BB6-B78D-A8F59079A8D5} but this appears to be a known issue. It's apparently a null key and which isn't a problem.

The Application log shows failures for several applications (most notable audiodg.exe - part of the Windows audio engine) with an exception code of 0xC0000005 which is an access violation exception. Other applications are failing with an 0xC0000409 exception code, this is a buffer overrun exception. Both are RAM related so I would suggest you check your RAM with Memtest in the first instance.

I strongly suspect you're seeing the same sort of problem that others with AMD builds and 4 x RAM sticks are seeing. We really need to see a dump, either a kernel dump that will be in the C:\WIndows\Memory.dmp file or minidumps that will be in C:\Windows\Minidumps folder.

 

[macjim]

Hi Ubuysa,

Thansk for the feedback.

This is the settings under services.msc:

WinHTTP Web Proxy Auto-Discovery Service (Service name - WinHttpAutoProxySvc) is disabled, and says stopped in Task manager
IP Helper (Service Name - iphlpsvc) is set to Automatic, but says stopped in Task manager
Network Connectivity Assistant (Service Name - NcaSvc) is set to manual(Trigger Start), but says stopped in Task manager

I tried to restart the WinHttpAutoProxySvc service using the Recovery tab, when I click "Help me set up recovery actions" it pops up a error message "An internal error occured (INVALID HANDLE)"

I'll try a clean re-start to see what the status of these services is pst boot time, I tend not to log off but use hibernation to put he machine to sleep at night - again probably not helping here.

I also tend to have multiple Firefox windows open, with multiple tabs - Curently about 12 Firefox windows open with 50 tabs in total, it's just the way I work - probably doesn't help, also tend to get this error message - it might explain the many connection errors.

Previous Memtest86 was clean, but I'll try another few cycles to see if that's an issue.


I never get a memeory dump, it never actually BSOD - it just freezes, not sure if I left it long enough it would Dump - but I've come back to the PC 1-2 hrs after a freeze and it's just sitting there with no response. This is my recovery options:

I'll try another round of memtests, log off at night and less Browser windows to see if that helps.


Thanks

 

[ubuysa]

Hi Ubuysa,

Thansk for the feedback.

This is the settings under services.msc:

WinHTTP Web Proxy Auto-Discovery Service (Service name - WinHttpAutoProxySvc) is disabled, and says stopped in Task manager
IP Helper (Service Name - iphlpsvc) is set to Automatic, but says stopped in Task manager
Network Connectivity Assistant (Service Name - NcaSvc) is set to manual(Trigger Start), but says stopped in Task manager

I tried to restart the WinHttpAutoProxySvc service using the Recovery tab, when I click "Help me set up recovery actions" it pops up a error message "An internal error occured (INVALID HANDLE)"

I'll try a clean re-start to see what the status of these services is pst boot time, I tend not to log off but use hibernation to put he machine to sleep at night - again probably not helping here.

I also tend to have multiple Firefox windows open, with multiple tabs - Curently about 12 Firefox windows open with 50 tabs in total, it's just the way I work - probably doesn't help, also tend to get this error message - it might explain the many connection errors.

View attachment 22463

Previous Memtest86 was clean, but I'll try another few cycles to see if that's an issue.


I never get a memeory dump, it never actually BSOD - it just freezes, not sure if I left it long enough it would Dump - but I've come back to the PC 1-2 hrs after a freeze and it's just sitting there with no response. This is my recovery options:

View attachment 22464


I'll try another round of memtests, log off at night and less Browser windows to see if that helps.


Thanks

I would change WinHttpAutoProxySvc to 'manual' so that it can start if necessary, then reboot.

 

[macjim]

Tried restarting the service, but to no avail.

Even setup a new user account, but it was greyed out in the services window also.

Eventually ended up in the registry, after some searching on how to start the service:

All three services are now running.

 

[ubuysa]

Tried restarting the service, but to no avail.

Even setup a new user account, but it was greyed out in the services window also.

Eventually ended up in the registry, after some searching on how to start the service:

View attachment 22492


All three services are now running.

You couldn't modify it in services.msc then? That's curious. Changing the registry key does the same thing however, the services.msc dialog just modifies the registry keys under the covers. Nice find!

Now let's see whether this solves your problem - I'm far from guaranteeing that it will but one has to start somewhere. If it happens again upload you application and system logs again.

 

[macjim]

You couldn't modify it in services.msc then?

Nope still greyed after reboot, my work laptop, Win10 Enterprise shows the same behaviour

I also uninstalled the graphics driver using DDU https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/forums/threads/clean-installing-graphics-drivers.59691/

I had a freeze watching a video, but didn't keep the event logs. I may just clear the logs to see what ends up in them the next time - still no memory dump.

 

[macjim]

Finally managed to produce a MEMORY.DMP file, but I had to cheat.

I found this post on how to cause a crash from the keyboard: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/wi...gger/forcing-a-system-crash-from-the-keyboard

"With USB keyboards, you must enable the keyboard-initiated crash in the registry. In the registry key HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\kbdhid\Parameters, create a value named CrashOnCtrlScroll, and set it equal to a REG_DWORD value of 0x01."

You basically hold hold the right CTRL key down, and hit Scroll Lock twice and it gives a BSOD.

I've had 5 freezes in the last 24 hrs, even had one while I was writing this post - so I have two Memory Dumps to share.

I've stored all files on my One Drive, hope they help.

Microsoft OneDrive

1drv.ms

Thanks

 

[ubuysa]

Finally managed to produce a MEMORY.DMP file, but I had to cheat.

I found this post on how to cause a crash from the keyboard: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/wi...gger/forcing-a-system-crash-from-the-keyboard

"With USB keyboards, you must enable the keyboard-initiated crash in the registry. In the registry key HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\kbdhid\Parameters, create a value named CrashOnCtrlScroll, and set it equal to a REG_DWORD value of 0x01."

You basically hold hold the right CTRL key down, and hit Scroll Lock twice and it gives a BSOD.

I've had 5 freezes in the last 24 hrs, even had one while I was writing this post - so I have two Memory Dumps to share.

I've stored all files on my One Drive, hope they help.

Microsoft OneDrive

1drv.ms

Thanks

Well I appreciate your effort and admire your ingenuity but a deliberately caused crash isn't going to be helpful. The dump will just contain the details of the crash you caused I'm afraid.

You referenced a kernel dump (in C:\Windows\Memory.dmp) in an earlier post and THAT was the dump I wanted. Sadly, since there can only be one kernel dump in that file at a time, you've now overwritten the kernel dump that would have been useful with a kernel dump that isn't.

I'll check what other dumps you've uploaded tomorrow morning.

Ah well, such is life. If you get another crash, and especially if you get a BSOD, copy C:\Windows\Memory.dmp to another folder of your choice so you don't overwrite it, then upload it.