Swiftech sell known scratched items

[Buzz]

Hey all...

Gotta vent a little. pls forgive

Recently bought a Swiftech Apogee HD waterblock. Upon opening I noticed the allenkey heads on one of the closed ports was marked from where someone tightened it and marked it. My first thoughts were it was already used. It certainly looked it. While not massive marks by any means, being a waterblock for the CPU I was worried if was a 2nd hand one it wouldnt perform as it should. It also had what I can only describe as very very light sandpaper marks, Not visibly from a picture due to shine on bottom. Also kinda dirty looking rub marks.

Anyway, I mailed supplier who after 4 emails said

"we have one other block in stock and the thread heads are also marked from what looks like someone tightened it up and marked it with the allenkey" "It looks like the standards they ship at"

As you can imagine with a nearly 100€ brand new product I was not happy with that and mailed Swiftech direct....

This is the reply

Hi
The marks on the plug fittings are “normal “ and does not mean the waterblock you have received was used. Unlike other vendors, we do install the fittings to make sure that they are fastened properly. It is also part of a final QC process that allows us to control the quality of the thread as well as that of the joint.

As for the Copper base very faint finger print: a worker may have touched the copper base before the sticker was installed. A tiny bit of polish will shine it right back.


Regards,

Marks "NORMAL" on a brand new product.......This is for sure a first for me. So basically the point to this mail other then enjoying a rant is to let ya know that if you buy a swiftech product expect screw and allenkey heads to be marked and if they are they already know and do not give a damn.

They might be good products admittedly but that standard is rubbish if you ask me, and I for one wont get any more products from them. Annoyed to say the least. Here is your new product. We scratched it there sorry, but it was from testing so tough...

 

[Gishank]

Well, are you honestly going to notice the marks when it is closed up inside your case? To be honest I personally think that you are making a mountain out of a molehill. D:

 

[Buzz]

Well, are you honestly going to notice the marks when it is closed up inside your case? To be honest I personally think that you are making a mountain out of a molehill. D:

for a start weather it is noticed or not is besides the point. I know it. I saw it. And I bought it. Are you honestly telling me if you spend 100 quid on something that is marked and the seller says it is fine you would be happy with that. If so then its being a bit of a push over really. It is unacceptable the standard and attitude. Full stop. Tell me if your computer case from PCS was scratched you would say nothing???

Of course it is noticed. I have lights in my rig and a window. It is right in middle of everything and of course scratch marks on one of the plugs is noticeable. If it wasnt id have not noticed and said nothing. I am in shock with your reply to be honest. Brand new item marked and u think I am over reacting. Sigh whats the world coming to at all that people just sit back and accept things.

 

[Narcotics]

for a start weather it is noticed or not is besides the point. I know it. I saw it. And I bought it. Are you honestly telling me if you spend 100 quid on something that is marked and the seller says it is fine you would be happy with that. If so then its being a bit of a push over really. It is unacceptable the standard and attitude. Full stop. Tell me if your computer case from PCS was scratched you would say nothing???

Of course it is noticed. I have lights in my rig and a window. It is right in middle of everything and of course scratch marks on one of the plugs is noticeable. If it wasnt id have not noticed and said nothing. I am in shock with your reply to be honest. Brand new item marked and u think I am over reacting. Sigh whats the world coming to at all that people just sit back and accept things.

Sorry to hear that man that sucks I would be tremendously p****d if I paid £100 for a scratched item.

 

[Buzz]

Sorry to hear that man that sucks I would be tremendously p****d if I paid £100 for a scratched item.

Was more annoyed to be told they know of it and still ship regardless mate. Almost like its common practice and a normal thing and we should just accept it. Sigh

 

[grouchon]

Hello There,

It would be helpful to other users to post the pictures that you sent us in order to support your claim, so I am including them below. I have circled in green the "scratched up" plugs, and the very faint finger print on the base plate.

Plug edge: Had we not tightened the fittings for QC purposes, then the very slight wear at the edge of the hex wouldn't be visible. But for the record, we have sold over 10 thousands of these blocks, and NEVER had a user complain about this. So we were quite shocked to receive one to be honest. If this is really your biggest issue, then we can mail you a couple of plugs to make you happy. But to state my personal opinion I think that the real issue is the 100 euros that you paid for the block. I am quite surprised by such high price. Without sales tax, our MSRP in the US is $70 for this block (equivalent to about 56 euros), and I don't quite understand why the price in your area is so high . I'll have to investigate this.

 

[Buzz]

Hello There,

It would be helpful to other users to post the pictures that you sent us in order to support your claim, so I am including them below. I have circled in green the "scratched up" plugs, and the very faint finger print on the base plate.

Plug edge: Had we not tightened the fittings for QC purposes, then the very slight wear at the edge of the hex wouldn't be visible. But for the record, we have sold over 10 thousands of these blocks, and NEVER had a user complain about this. So we were quite shocked to receive one to be honest. If this is really your biggest issue, then we can mail you a couple of plugs to make you happy. But to state my personal opinion I think that the real issue is the 100 euros that you paid for the block. I am quite surprised by such high price. Without sales tax, our MSRP in the US is $70 for this block (equivalent to about 56 euros), and I don't quite understand why the price in your area is so high . I'll have to investigate this.

Those first two pictures you just posted are of the other block the seller has in stock supporting the claim that items are scratched as a rule, enhancing my issue more that it is not just one and that it is that standard of the company. I dont know what company you work for though.

One way or another you cant get out of the fact that the brand new items are scratched. Also on the base plate (bottom picture) due to what the items are I would expect better then that. Again my point of this was the fact that I was TOLD that this is common practice for Speciltech to ship items scratched.

My price of 100€ was the total cost of block and shipping. Well just shy of 100€. 73.65£ to be exact = 93.94€ so yes it cost me best part of 100 quid as stated.

In my email I also stated that I appreciate the products are good and that they are vastly sold. Does that excuse the fact that a new item is marked. Seriously, I can not understand how I am made out to be over reacting when the new item is clearly marked. And again ill say it for the record one last time. My issue is not just the fact it is marked. My issue is with the attitude of get over it. Its how we ship them so tough.

 

[DeadEyeDuk]

Buzz! YOU'RE BEING STALKED!

 

[Buzz]

Buzz! YOU'RE BEING STALKED!

Lol. I had wondered myself mate

 

[tom_gr7]

I think you are well within your rights as a buyer to complain, you paid for a brand new item and it came damaged in an unsatisfactory condition.

If I bought anything brand new and it came damaged even in the slightest I wouldnt be happy at all! Neither would anyone to be fair. I would expect items to come in a brand new sealed condition.

I think its important to highlight here, http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales...t_is_meant_by_not_of_satisfactory_quality.htm

"What does satisfactory quality mean

Goods are of satisfactory quality if they are of a standard that a reasonable person would think was satisfactory at the time of sale. This should take into account their price and anything else that seems to be relevant, for example, whether they're second hand. This means the goods should:

be fit for all the purposes that this type of goods are normally used for
be of satisfactory appearance and finish
be free of minor defects"

In my opinion Buzz, I would be unhappy myself having bought any item and it having arrived in a condition like that.

 

[keynes]

I think you are well within your rights as a buyer to complain, you paid for a brand new item and it came damaged in an unsatisfactory condition.

If I bought anything brand new and it came damaged even in the slightest I wouldnt be happy at all! Neither would anyone to be fair. I would expect items to come in a brand new sealed condition.

I think its important to highlight here, http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales...t_is_meant_by_not_of_satisfactory_quality.htm

"What does satisfactory quality mean

Goods are of satisfactory quality if they are of a standard that a reasonable person would think was satisfactory at the time of sale. This should take into account their price and anything else that seems to be relevant, for example, whether they're second hand. This means the goods should:

be fit for all the purposes that this type of goods are normally used for
be of satisfactory appearance and finish
be free of minor defects"

In my opinion Buzz, I would be unhappy myself having bought any item and it having arrived in a condition like that.

I agree with Tom, if a supposedly brand new item have marks then in it I would be dubious about the quality of the component.

 

[DeadEyeDuk]

This is how my PCS PC arrived...now I think about it, I probably should have called them to complain that it just didn't feel like it was all brand new...

 

[tom_gr7]

This is how my PCS PC arrived...now I think about it, I probably should have called them to complain that it just didn't feel like it was all brand new...

View attachment 1773

DED, erm did Yodel Deliver that?

 

[grouchon]

I dont know what company you work for though... Seriously, I can not understand how I am made out to be over reacting when the new item is clearly marked. And again ill say it for the record one last time. My issue is not just the fact it is marked. My issue is with the attitude of get over it...

Sorry for neglecting to introduce myself: my name is Gabriel Rouchon, aka Gabe, and I am Swiftech's CEO - my personal email is [email protected] so you may verify this if you wish.

LOL, no I am not stalking you, but Google is such a wonderful tool: I search it once a day for the latest posts about Swiftech, and noticed the inflammatory title. it's hard to miss.

Over reacting: I didn't say you are, but I did say that you are the first person to ever complain about this, and that we (at Swiftech) were shocked (as in "very surprised") about it. Your deduction that we "know about a problem" isn't correct. We use tools to assemble these products. Tools for the screws, tools for the fittings, they normally don't leave marks other than the faintest, but they do, and it isn't a problem per se. So either your fitting was abnormally marked (which I haven't really seen in these pics) or no one else has either noticed and/or complained to us about how the fittings look.

So no: Swiftech doesn't ship anything with "known" defects. We take too much pride in our products for that; We wouldn't be in this business close to 15 years if we didn't.

about customer satisfaction: your reseller offered to replace the product or refund your money but it seems that you preferred to keep your bock. I have offered above to send you replacement fitting. I believe that this should take care of this problem now, right?

About an alleged "get over it attitude" - this would equal to "Swiftech doesn't care", and again, over a period of 15 years, we've proven that we do, and I wouldn't be in this forum if I didn't would I? But I do believe that a reasonable measure of common sense should be applied in every situation.

 

[Buzz]

Hello Gabe

And thanks for commenting on the post...CEO aye.,,

1st off let me just say that the supplier who sold me my item had two Apogee HD in stock. I mailed him after I received mine. He sent me those pictures showing that he can also see marks on the heads and told me it was more then likely common place but hard to see from pictures, which is when I got annoyed and mailed swiftech directly. After the reply from Swiftech I was even more annoyed to find that your rep Just pretty much states Swiftech do tighten by hand for QC and that its normal. Nope its not normal as in all the years on this planet Iv never bought a brand new item to open and find it marked regardless of the QC and if it is damaged something is said. To be told that the threads are tested for QC lmao. Ok they are tested but does any other company out there mark the items being sold..NO


Of course you use tools to assemble them, just like every other company out there. And yet low and behold no other company has marks. In fact in my old job we used the likes of torque pressured and specialised tools so this exact thing would not happen. Your comment of "If this is your biggest problem" sounds cheeky and belittling the issue at hand as its a HUGE inconvenience all this to say the least.. Bottom line your finishing standard is really not great is it..and when I asked about it was told its normal. If I was given a sorry in the first place instead of being told its normal and get a cloth out will shine my new item back up...Well just not good enough for what comes to nearly 100€ shipped

One sold to me, marked, one left in stock, marked, your own Representative stating they are tightened by hand and get marked but yet Im still having this debate with the CEO......

All the supplier could offer me in the end was a refund as the other one in stock was practically the same and the supplier was trying to be helpful by offering a refund but as I stated to him I wanted to contact swiftech direct to find out if, what was stated to me was true as I would have still needed a block. The swiftech offer came ONLY after I stated I would not buy from swiftech again..and that offer is to send a new screw. Why had I to go to all this trouble? I send a mail saying something is damaged, instead of trying to hide from it, would it not have been way easier to just say hey sorry about that. It shouldnt be marked. We could send you a new unmarked one....

Nope I had to get to point of frustration before ANYTHING like that was mentioned.

About an alleged "get over it attitude" - this would equal to "Swiftech doesn't care", and again, over a period of 15 years, we've proven that we do, and I wouldn't be in this forum if I didn't would I? But I do believe that a reasonable measure of common sense should be applied in every situation..

The attitude was coming from me being told it happens and is "Normal" which lead me to believe that swiftech really couldnt care less.
You say you care but yet your own staff confirmed for me that this does happen and it is NORMAL. You can check the email if you like. It was after this email that I saw red.

So no: Swiftech doesn't ship anything with "known" defects. We take too much pride in our products for that; We wouldn't be in this business close to 15 years if we didn't.

Not according to your staff....

Quote from 1st post (email from swiftech)

Hi
The marks on the plug fittings are “normal “ and does not mean the waterblock you have received was used. Unlike other vendors, we do install the fittings to make sure that they are fastened properly. It is also part of a final QC process that allows us to control the quality of the thread as well as that of the joint.

 

[SmokeDarKnight]

I agree, i would be pretty hacked off too.

Plus if i was showing it to anyone else the first thing they would say is "OH its got a scratch there"

I got the garage to shine out a handpirint left on the body of my new car. Its not a big deal yeah but its part of the service of buying a new product.

 

[aaaeron]

I know i'm not a regular poster on the forums, but i agree with buzz totally here.

I work for an aircraft engineering company, and there are times when they have to scrap upwards of £20,000 parts because of the quality that customers demand. Aircraft QC is some of the strictest in the business, and you don't see us sending planes out with scratches down them and finger prints everywhere because it costs a bit more to keep them clean. People will argue "it will get dirty eventually", but at the point of delivery it should look PERFECT, regardless of what it will be used for later.

It's one of the biggest rules we have within our company, Cost... quality...delivery.

And for a product to come for a pc, which people spend a lot of money on just for it's visual appearance, it is kind of stupid that a companies apparent CEO is now debating the fact that it is okay to have these marks because of "quality control". No matter how small they are.

Okay, my rants over now!

 

[rubberhead]

Gonna give my 2c on this ..

I fully agree that I wouldn't be happy at all with the scratches either. I'd be fine with something like that if I had bought the part second hand, knew in advance and accepted it as-is, but on a brand new part, honestly, it's quite unacceptable.

Particularly with something like watercooling gear - a large point of it is for the cooling (obviously!) but in addition, a major part is that it's "For Show". The type of person who goes out and watercools and pays these kinds of prices, wants it for aesthetics as well as it being practical. Why would any manufacturer bother spending a fortune updating/developing product designs etc otherwise. 'Looks' play a major role in customers' eyes and so, a major role in sales, is why!

SmokeDarKnight, you couldn't have said it better!! Exactly what I was thinking! lmao

I have no doubt that Swiftech sell thousands and thousands of these blocks as you say, grouchon, but I can't believe there's never been a complaint! My guess is there was never a complaint because this isn't your 'standard' of quality and a couple of bad eggs got through QC, and Swiftech are trying to play it down now.

If you are saying that this is your 'standard' and all Swiftech blocks are like this, why doesn't the Apogee HD block on the Swiftech Product Page have the same marks?

..Tools for the screws, tools for the fittings, they normally don't leave marks other than the faintest,but they do, and it isn't a problem per se.

Very faint marks wouldn't be a problem I'm sure. Chipped paint, marks and fingerprints on a brand new product ..and it PASSED QC!? Can you honestly tell me you don't see a problem with that!? How were you "quite shocked" by this? And if the OP's block was possibly "abnormally marked", as you say, how would that pass QC?

The bottom line is I personally really like the Apogee HD block because it does look great! It has a lovely design and I considered buying one (still might, depending how this plays out. One without scratches, that is!) but I can see the OPs perspective for sure. To me, this is a Swiftech QC issue and followed by a Customer Services issue, and Swiftech's explanation/excuse/solution is a bit ..erm... ....could do with some revision.

 

[Buzz]

So a little update..

Got an email from Swiftech

No hello, No hope this is ok, no if we can do anything else to help pls contact us. No sorry. No nothing. Just that they are sending a new plug.

Actual email

"Mailed you replacement plugs today
Regards"

I mean really....... Ill never buy from swiftech again that's for sure.

Thank god for companies like PCs and how they conduct customer service, that's all I can say.

 

[DeadEyeDuk]

Ill never buy from swiftech again that's for sure.

/awaits reply (its not showing on Google yet, just your original posts )